Comments on: I Told Them This Day Would Come http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/ Marcom - Marketing Communications :: PR/Marcom Pros Mentoring Students Sat, 11 Oct 2008 11:15:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Robert http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1171 Robert Thu, 27 Oct 2005 01:50:48 +0000 http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1171 Richard, I don't see anything wrong with blogging anonymously. (<em>I will say that to blog anonymously and write rude and impolite comments about people is childish and immature. But, that's not entirely what this particular discussion is about.</em>) The point here was the anonymous statement of claims absent evidence. That is where the true problem comes in for a blog owner and her/his comments sections. If I had allowed this blogger to continue posting anonymous claims of illegality about his company - or any other company or person - I would then be libel for his/her actions. I know several people that blog anonymously. What they post in thier blogs is their business. When they post in my blog, or yours, then the responsibility is shared - like it or not. Although an old issue, it is one that resurfaces quite often. In this instance, it was quite interesting for my students to see it happening in real time in a blog that is designed for them and they participate in regularly. I don't know what is going on with our anonymous comment poster, but his/her blog is now down. http://publixis.blogspot.com/ Their experience here may have caused her/him to reassess the practice of blogging - period - whether anonymous or out in the open. It is a possibly dangerous activity effecting job security and more. Richard, I don’t see anything wrong with blogging anonymously. (I will say that to blog anonymously and write rude and impolite comments about people is childish and immature. But, that’s not entirely what this particular discussion is about.) The point here was the anonymous statement of claims absent evidence. That is where the true problem comes in for a blog owner and her/his comments sections.

If I had allowed this blogger to continue posting anonymous claims of illegality about his company - or any other company or person - I would then be libel for his/her actions.

I know several people that blog anonymously. What they post in thier blogs is their business. When they post in my blog, or yours, then the responsibility is shared - like it or not.

Although an old issue, it is one that resurfaces quite often. In this instance, it was quite interesting for my students to see it happening in real time in a blog that is designed for them and they participate in regularly.

I don’t know what is going on with our anonymous comment poster, but his/her blog is now down.

http://publixis.blogspot.com/

Their experience here may have caused her/him to reassess the practice of blogging - period - whether anonymous or out in the open. It is a possibly dangerous activity effecting job security and more.

]]> By: Richard http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1170 Richard Thu, 27 Oct 2005 00:51:42 +0000 http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1170 This is an interesting discussion. But it's one I've seen before - both when Mark Jen was fired from Google and hired by Plaxo for his blogging activities; in the Microsoft blogging experiments; and in Yahoo's mostly positive way of addressing the issues raised by employee blogging. It is very interesting to see this from a PR perspective, rather than that of the principles involved, but the "employee blogging about work" issue has been around for quite a long while now. What I find more interesting are the discussions about libel, slander and personal ethics as it relates to blogging. I'll just say here that there are many reasons for blogging more-or-less anonymously. In my case, the company I work for is so small that my point of view quickly becomes synonymous with that of my employer, which often is not the case. (That's happened a couple of times with written and televised statements in the pre-blogging world.) That's a situation that is possibly detrimental to both of us, obviously – and made more complex by the fact that I serve on 3 boards for local governing bodies. My activities as a employee, as a private individual, and as a board member seem to merge quickly, even though there may be no real connection between the three at any particular point. Anonymity – though some people may call it cowardly or pointless – allows my opinion to be my own, without having it identified as the viewpoint of my company, my municipality, or my county. Even though my pond is a very small one, it still allows me to have, in an odd way, my own identity, in a way I couldn't if I were to blog under my name. This is an interesting discussion. But it’s one I’ve seen before - both when Mark Jen was fired from Google and hired by Plaxo for his blogging activities; in the Microsoft blogging experiments; and in Yahoo’s mostly positive way of addressing the issues raised by employee blogging.

It is very interesting to see this from a PR perspective, rather than that of the principles involved, but the “employee blogging about work” issue has been around for quite a long while now. What I find more interesting are the discussions about libel, slander and personal ethics as it relates to blogging.

I’ll just say here that there are many reasons for blogging more-or-less anonymously. In my case, the company I work for is so small that my point of view quickly becomes synonymous with that of my employer, which often is not the case. (That’s happened a couple of times with written and televised statements in the pre-blogging world.)

That’s a situation that is possibly detrimental to both of us, obviously – and made more complex by the fact that I serve on 3 boards for local governing bodies. My activities as a employee, as a private individual, and as a board member seem to merge quickly, even though there may be no real connection between the three at any particular point.

Anonymity – though some people may call it cowardly or pointless – allows my opinion to be my own, without having it identified as the viewpoint of my company, my municipality, or my county. Even though my pond is a very small one, it still allows me to have, in an odd way, my own identity, in a way I couldn’t if I were to blog under my name.

]]> By: Justin-at-Publix http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1129 Justin-at-Publix Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:53:13 +0000 http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1129 Well, this all seems really complicated, fortunately its not. Internet security is an oxymoron. Don't say anything you wouldn't want your mother to read. Don't make accusations you cant prove or otherwise don't intend to pursue in court--there is no point in them. As far as Robert owning my posts on his blog--yes he does and he owns yours too. And yes, he can edit them as he sees fit. So what is my point? Corporate blogs have them same responsibilities and limitations as us individuals. I don't know Mr. Publix or work. But I understand where he is coming from. Who could blame him for trying to get someone to listen to what he has to say without disclosing his identity? I think he has a valid point regarding his privacy, but how do you insure his privacy without infringing on the rights of companies and other individuals regarding their image in the eyes of the public? Answer: the same way any other form of mass media does, they check their sources. Newspapers don't print just anything their readers mail to them, why should we? Well, this all seems really complicated, fortunately its not. Internet security is an oxymoron. Don’t say anything you wouldn’t want your mother to read. Don’t make accusations you cant prove or otherwise don’t intend to pursue in court–there is no point in them. As far as Robert owning my posts on his blog–yes he does and he owns yours too. And yes, he can edit them as he sees fit. So what is my point? Corporate blogs have them same responsibilities and limitations as us individuals. I don’t know Mr. Publix or work. But I understand where he is coming from. Who could blame him for trying to get someone to listen to what he has to say without disclosing his identity? I think he has a valid point regarding his privacy, but how do you insure his privacy without infringing on the rights of companies and other individuals regarding their image in the eyes of the public? Answer: the same way any other form of mass media does, they check their sources. Newspapers don’t print just anything their readers mail to them, why should we?

]]> By: Robert http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1127 Robert Wed, 12 Oct 2005 04:19:20 +0000 http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1127 Thank you, Kevin. It has turned into a good learning experience for all of us, I think. Thank you, Kevin.

It has turned into a good learning experience for all of us, I think.

]]> By: Kevin Dugan http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1126 Kevin Dugan Wed, 12 Oct 2005 04:12:36 +0000 http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1126 Great thread. Robert is right for moderating as he has done. First off, it's his blog ultimately...right? A blogger has been sued for comments appearing on his weblog. http://www.businessblogconsulting.com/2005/08/blogger_sued_fo.html Allan, I suspect you're assumption is correct: If it's your blog, you're ultimately responsible for the conversation. It will be interesting to see how the case turns out if it goes to trial. Great thread. Robert is right for moderating as he has done. First off, it’s his blog ultimately…right? A blogger has been sued for comments appearing on his weblog.

http://www.businessblogconsulting.com/2005/08/blogger_sued_fo.html

Allan, I suspect you’re assumption is correct: If it’s your blog, you’re ultimately responsible for the conversation. It will be interesting to see how the case turns out if it goes to trial.

]]> By: Robert http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1125 Robert Wed, 12 Oct 2005 03:24:21 +0000 http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1125 I have edited all comments referencing our comment visitor to read as <em>Anonymous - Publix I/S Associate</em> and I have removed any mention of his IP address. For continuity, I have literally edited all of them in everyone's comments. The point has been made. He requested, after I offered, to have the changes made. I hope this little "drama" (as the students have termed it) is now over. No harm intended, truly. The point has been made. The lesson has been learned - I hope. Robert I have edited all comments referencing our comment visitor to read as Anonymous - Publix I/S Associate and I have removed any mention of his IP address. For continuity, I have literally edited all of them in everyone’s comments.

The point has been made.

He requested, after I offered, to have the changes made.

I hope this little “drama” (as the students have termed it) is now over.

No harm intended, truly. The point has been made. The lesson has been learned - I hope.

Robert

]]> By: Jeremy Pepper http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1124 Jeremy Pepper Wed, 12 Oct 2005 01:30:34 +0000 http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1124 What's this supermarket thing you guys talk about? Is it a Southern thing? I thought everyone bought groceries at Costco. What’s this supermarket thing you guys talk about? Is it a Southern thing?

I thought everyone bought groceries at Costco.

]]> By: Robert http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1123 Robert Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:21:46 +0000 http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1123 Everyone has a right to their own opinions. What I, as the blog's owner, have done is what might happen when dealing with any blog. You could be held to their decisions as to what they would do with whatever information they garnered from your visits to their blogs. So, the tables can be turned very quickly. I've merely identified you - to the best of my ability - to the public that reads this blog. They now have at least a little bit more information from which to judge your comments. I'm glad this thread is over. All the best. By the way, the commentor wrote to me and requested that we try and follow the trail of his IP back to find his service provider. It was easy. We did it. <strong><em>Update:</em></strong> The more I think about this, I wonder if our guest recognizes that this whole thread is a lesson in the capricious nature of the web and particularly - blogs. For a business, blogs/CMS pose a concern regarding the "whim; impulsive and unpredictable" nature of the publishing software in the hands of just about anyone that wants to launch a blog. Further, those posting comments are equally exposed to the risk of that very same unpredictability. If I can wrap up this thread now, the value here is to both (a) understand the value and danger of a blog for your clients and (b) to understand the value and danger of a blog regarding your personal participation in them. There are other lessons, but those two seem particularly pertinent now. This thread wound up being a sort of 'Petri dish' for testing and exploring the quirks of blogs. Everyone has a right to their own opinions.

What I, as the blog’s owner, have done is what might happen when dealing with any blog. You could be held to their decisions as to what they would do with whatever information they garnered from your visits to their blogs.

So, the tables can be turned very quickly.

I’ve merely identified you - to the best of my ability - to the public that reads this blog. They now have at least a little bit more information from which to judge your comments.

I’m glad this thread is over. All the best.

By the way, the commentor wrote to me and requested that we try and follow the trail of his IP back to find his service provider. It was easy. We did it.

Update: The more I think about this, I wonder if our guest recognizes that this whole thread is a lesson in the capricious nature of the web and particularly - blogs. For a business, blogs/CMS pose a concern regarding the “whim; impulsive and unpredictable” nature of the publishing software in the hands of just about anyone that wants to launch a blog. Further, those posting comments are equally exposed to the risk of that very same unpredictability.

If I can wrap up this thread now, the value here is to both (a) understand the value and danger of a blog for your clients and (b) to understand the value and danger of a blog regarding your personal participation in them. There are other lessons, but those two seem particularly pertinent now.

This thread wound up being a sort of ‘Petri dish’ for testing and exploring the quirks of blogs.

]]> By: Justin Estes http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1122 Justin Estes Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:51:15 +0000 http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1122 Well, this has defenitely been entertaining. After reading Mr. <em>(Edit)</em> - <em>Publix I/S Associate</em>'s blog, i think i know why he has been hanging out here...as far as I can tell, know one is listening to him on his...or at least not commenting. This has been an interesting lesson for all of us as to what can happen on a blog. Obviously this guy has strong feelings on the subject and feels that he is being wronged. He thinks he has some important info, but doesn't want to reveal all of that info, for fear that he will hurt his source, who apparently lives in another country (presumably India, the country that Publix is allegedly outsourcing to) so he is content making accusations that will forever be unsubstantiated--unless he comes out of the closet, so to speak. It's also nice to be reminded that there are ramifications to having a blog and that issues like libel are things we have to be aware of and diligent about. I will give him this (and I'm sure it's partly what he wants) I'm going to pay attention to see if any of this comes to light...and to see IF this guy will have the guts to stand up for what he believes in and not just post "anonymously" on blogs. That way I can say, oh yea...I remember him when he was just Mr. <em>(Edit)</em> - <em>Publix I/S Associate</em> on marcomblog! <blockquote> <strong><em>Blog Owner's Note:</em></strong> The person claiming to be a Publix I/S Associate does not represent Publix in their comments. We do not know if they are truly a Publix I/S Associate, either. </blockquote> Well, this has defenitely been entertaining. After reading Mr. (Edit) - Publix I/S Associate’s blog, i think i know why he has been hanging out here…as far as I can tell, know one is listening to him on his…or at least not commenting.

This has been an interesting lesson for all of us as to what can happen on a blog. Obviously this guy has strong feelings on the subject and feels that he is being wronged. He thinks he has some important info, but doesn’t want to reveal all of that info, for fear that he will hurt his source, who apparently lives in another country (presumably India, the country that Publix is allegedly outsourcing to) so he is content making accusations that will forever be unsubstantiated–unless he comes out of the closet, so to speak.
It’s also nice to be reminded that there are ramifications to having a blog and that issues like libel are things we have to be aware of and diligent about.

I will give him this (and I’m sure it’s partly what he wants) I’m going to pay attention to see if any of this comes to light…and to see IF this guy will have the guts to stand up for what he believes in and not just post “anonymously” on blogs. That way I can say, oh yea…I remember him when he was just Mr. (Edit) - Publix I/S Associate on marcomblog!

Blog Owner’s Note: The person claiming to be a Publix I/S Associate does not represent Publix in their comments. We do not know if they are truly a Publix I/S Associate, either.

]]> By: Anonymous - Publix I/S Associate http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1121 Anonymous - Publix I/S Associate Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:20:49 +0000 http://www.marcomblog.com/2005/10/09/i-told-them-this-day-would-come/#comment-1121 Now that I have read your response, I consider you to be vindictive and frankly a horrible professor. You just crossed the line by posting my IP address for all to see. That is simply reprehensible. Your blog leaves the impression that posts are anonymous. For you to take your course of action and change my alias is simply incredible. I stopped making claims on your blog as you requested. Your response has been childish and vindictive. If anyone here is an example of poor behavior, it is you. As far as being a representative of the company, I never claimed to be. My posts never made anyone think "Hey, this guy represents the views of Publix". Going back to your definition of libel, by definition what I did was not libel. Grow up. I just lost all respect for the PR profession. You are nothing more than a corporate hack. That is truly sad considering your students are taking lead from someone like yourself. You discust me and should be ashamed. I have seen young children behave better than you. I have been nothing but professional on your blog and even followed your own rules (even as they have changed along the way). You are not an authority on blogs, your students should know that. I can't imagine anyone paying for your consulting services. This is my last post, EVER, here unless it is to defend myself from your immature comments. Now that I have read your response, I consider you to be vindictive and frankly a horrible professor. You just crossed the line by posting my IP address for all to see. That is simply reprehensible. Your blog leaves the impression that posts are anonymous. For you to take your course of action and change my alias is simply incredible.

I stopped making claims on your blog as you requested. Your response has been childish and vindictive. If anyone here is an example of poor behavior, it is you.

As far as being a representative of the company, I never claimed to be. My posts never made anyone think “Hey, this guy represents the views of Publix”.

Going back to your definition of libel, by definition what I did was not libel. Grow up. I just lost all respect for the PR profession. You are nothing more than a corporate hack. That is truly sad considering your students are taking lead from someone like yourself.

You discust me and should be ashamed. I have seen young children behave better than you. I have been nothing but professional on your blog and even followed your own rules (even as they have changed along the way).

You are not an authority on blogs, your students should know that. I can’t imagine anyone paying for your consulting services. This is my last post, EVER, here unless it is to defend myself from your immature comments.

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